Strike Back When The Shop Damages Your Car - The Podcast

"SteveLehto" (stevelehto) 12/24/2015 at 09:00 • Filed to: None

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Your car got damaged while it was in the shop. Or after a valet took it and parked it. Or during an oil change. They’ll all deny they are liable but they are wrong. And here’s why.

I !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! a while back but I still get asked about it. There is a law in Michigan (and similar laws in most other states) that makes the Garage Keeper liable for damages happening to your car while it is in their care or control.

There is some nuance to it but suffice it to say you can ignore the sign on the wall that says they have no liability. And the same goes for the “Contractual” language on the back of the ticket stub you get when they park your car. It’s just there to scare off the naive. The point here is that you need to make sure you are not the naive one.

I explain the law and tell a few horror stories. Here is the audio:

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And the video:

And the pic at the top is of my latest book. Just got my copy; they’ll be available in a couple of weeks. For details, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

Follow me on Twitter: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Hear my podcast on iTunes: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Steve Lehto has been practicing law for 24 years, almost exclusively in consumer protection and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! He wrote !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

This website may supply general information about the law but it is for informational purposes only. This does not create an attorney-client relationship and is not meant to constitute legal advice, so the good news is we’re not billing you by the hour for reading this. The bad news is that you shouldn’t act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.

Takuro Spirit > SteveLehto 12/24/2015 at 09:47

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I just saw a brand new MKZ leave a Ford dealer in a cloud of James Bond-esque smoke screen. I’d LOVE to hear the story about that one when the customer goes back.... how they did not notice and make an immediate U-turn I will never know.

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > SteveLehto 12/24/2015 at 10:56

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My 1992 Grand Marquis is actually back in the shop at the moment after they didn’t fix it right the first time, and actually made the car worse. I brought it to them because of shaking at highway speeds and a grumbling/grinding coming from the rear at low speeds under light acceleration. The shaking would build up, peak, and subside, worst above 60mph, and could be felt in the steering and pedals. Other shops checked the front end bits and wheel balance and couldn’t figure it out, so I brought it to some other guys I trust. I was suspecting/hoping U joints or drive shaft balance at this point since it is relative to speed and not RPM. They told me it wasn’t the U joints or or drive shaft and that it was the rear diff which made sense, given the grumbling noise and obvious leaks. Their cost effective solution was to swap out the entire rear axle from another panther. I picked it up on Saturday and guess what... the shaking and grumbling are still there. But now my traction control and ABS no longer work. $840 dollars later I am worse off with a junk yard rear end and no TC or ABS which won’t be fun in Chicago winter. How do I get them to fix the issues, refund money, or get me something for my money?

ronmler3 > SteveLehto 12/24/2015 at 10:58

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Steve - isn’t all this under the concept of a bailment?

SteveLehto > ronmler3 12/24/2015 at 11:13

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Yes, but the law makes it easier to win.

HammerheadFistpunch > SteveLehto 12/24/2015 at 11:21

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More of a moral question for you. If there is cosmetic damage they admit to, but you would rather live with it and take cash for other projects is there any reason to try and work with them for an out of pocket settlement for less than the assesed value of the damage? Or should you simply insist full payment either out of pocket or from insurance?

SteveLehto > HammerheadFistpunch 12/24/2015 at 11:23

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Everything is negotiable and if they offer you cash, once you take it you can spend it any way you want.

HammerheadFistpunch > SteveLehto 12/24/2015 at 11:25

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I guess what I mean is: is there any reason NOT to demand the full assessed damage amount if you are taking a cashout? I mean other than the feels?

SteveLehto > HammerheadFistpunch 12/24/2015 at 11:27

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Not that I can think of. But since it is all negotiable . . .

SteveLehto > The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 12/24/2015 at 11:34

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The faulty repair is sometimes a bit trickier because they will claim it was 1) like that when it came in or 2) broke after it left. Check with a local attorney to see if IL has a garage keeper liability statute (or one that addresses mechanics).

Naughty0ne2Pointoh > SteveLehto 12/24/2015 at 11:47

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On a related note, I was had a pissed off police officer damage my vehicle during a stop. Even with the police car dash cam I couldn’t collect a dime. This was after a full formal complaint.

The pearlescent black paint was too reflective to allow pictures which showed the scratches. Despite the fact that they were completely visable in person. Even to the department person assigned to verify my claim.

It also turns out that the officer in question accounts for more than a third of the towns ticket writing. It was fairly obvious that they were protecting him.

I’m not an asshole, a cop hater, or looking for revenge. I’m a veteran and car enthusiast who simply thought the circumstance was wrong. I told them I planned to repaint the car anyway so it wasn’t a huge deal. I mostly just wanted to ensure it didn’t happen to someone else.

It still went nowhere.

I have a copy of the dashcam video to this day. Still pisses me off if I watch it.

Jimmy Joe Meeker > The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 12/24/2015 at 11:57

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If there was reason to suspect the diff, drain it, open it by removing the cover and take a peak inside look at the gears and bearings. It will be obvious. Now on some diffs they come apart from the pinion side and that’s more complicated but there are diagnosis steps that can be done without taking it apart.

The fact they were afraid to open the diff means they didn’t know what they were doing, know they don’t, so they went for the swap.

They probably swapped a rear axle on that doesn’t have the ABS and traction control toothed wheel sensors because well... it came from a car without it. Or they forgot to plug them in.

The differential shouldn’t cause shaking while driving. It can cause a variety of noises but not shaking. Shaking is a rotational balance issue somewhere. Since it’s speed related you’re looking at everything that turns at road speed. This includes brake drums and rotors as well as the drive shaft. Get under there and see if there is balance weight missing from the drive shaft or even a brake drum. I suspect brake drums were no longer balanced that way by 1992 and it should be worse under braking if it was.

945T > Naughty0ne2Pointoh 12/24/2015 at 12:05

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Youtube that shit. Name & Shame.

REO Jackwagon > Takuro Spirit 12/24/2015 at 12:08

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I like the new Lincolns, but they should either fix that one, or install a Smoke Screen button on the steering wheel so they can claim it’s a feature

Naughty0ne2Pointoh > 945T 12/24/2015 at 12:12

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This was 2008 or 2009. The officer still works there but I’m not sure it matters at this point.

Besides, while the guy is known to be a shitbag (technical Army term) I’m not big into the trendy police hating thing.

Cory Stansbury > Naughty0ne2Pointoh 12/24/2015 at 12:25

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If you haven’t repainted yet and the damage is still there, find a good photographer. There is nothing that cannot be captured on camera if the equipment and operator are up to snuff.

Naughty0ne2Pointoh > Cory Stansbury 12/24/2015 at 12:27

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This was back in 2009 iirc. Every picture on the car I have makes every surface look like a mirror. I’m not fretting about it now but this article reminded me of it.

xcelsior > SteveLehto 12/24/2015 at 12:46

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Thanks, Steve. I always wondered about signs in parking garages and the like, but fortunately never had a first-hand reason to research. Now I know. And knowing is half the battle.

BlipBloopDooby > Naughty0ne2Pointoh 12/24/2015 at 12:54

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lawsuit > complaint

Naughty0ne2Pointoh > BlipBloopDooby 12/24/2015 at 12:58

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Complaint = Free

Lawsuit = $$$

BlipBloopDooby > Naughty0ne2Pointoh 12/24/2015 at 13:04

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True but... Small claims court = $15-40

Outcome = $$$$$$$$$ and pride?

Naughty0ne2Pointoh > BlipBloopDooby 12/24/2015 at 13:09

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It just didn’t seem worth it to me at the time. The situation would be far different today I ensure you.

That's gonna leave a mark! > SteveLehto 12/24/2015 at 14:01

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Steve, is this why some restaurants have “free” valet parking (you give the attendant at tip)? They want to be not liable because they are not charging you?

SteveLehto > That's gonna leave a mark! 12/24/2015 at 14:42

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That’s probably what they are thinking but there still is a question about liability. Sure it will vary from state to state but I can see a car owner making the argument that the “free” valet was part of the experience they were paying for in the restaurant.

glemon > SteveLehto 12/24/2015 at 14:45

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I had a co-worker who parked in a garage where they parked your cars for you (rare around here) she said the scraped the car pretty good a couple days before and what was her chance of getting paid for the damage. I said pretty slim if she hadn’t pointed it out right away. She didn’t tell me that the orange paint from the wall of the garage was all over the car. They paid up without much fuss. PS, looking forward to the book, I am just old enough to remember when these were used cars and you would see them on the street, the shape was permanently imprinted on my adolescent brain.

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > SteveLehto 12/24/2015 at 16:13

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Thanks. I will look into that if they don’t set things right in a reasonable way.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > SteveLehto 12/24/2015 at 17:12

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I’m still amazed how frequently shops drop cars off of lifts. It’s like they have never tried to balance a car on a lift before. It’s happened to me twice. Once for my 1989 subaru XT and once on my 2002 Impreza.

Enderxenocide23 > xcelsior 12/24/2015 at 17:41

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STEVE LEHTOOOOOOO A Real American Hero.

jeffco > The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 12/24/2015 at 22:17

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Go to a library and see if they have an old Ford NVH manual (Noise, Vibration, and Harshness)...I have a couple of these and they are wonderful when you have hard to find issues. They use a drill-down and flowchart sort of format so you start with the nature and location of the problem and work your way through a succession of checking things from most common to totally obscure, along with a lot of cool tips and tricks for quickly ruling some things out so you get to the problem quicker.

KJabs got a Chevy SS!!! - no longer needs a Pontiac G8 > SteveLehto 12/25/2015 at 04:02

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Do you know the law for Arizona?

NoOneHere2 > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 12/25/2015 at 04:57

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Sounds like you need a new mechanic!

drivesatruck_notaredneck > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 12/25/2015 at 09:04

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I have a lift at home and I dropped my buddy’s f150 off it once. It’s actually not that hard to do, and change in balance and it’s gone. I’m definetly and amateur though.

drivesatruck_notaredneck > HammerheadFistpunch 12/25/2015 at 09:06

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I have a friend who hit a deer with his truck and the insurance was gonna pay to replace the bumper, air dam, and valence panel, but when he saw the cost, had them put on a ridiculous offroad bumper instead.

SchwarzeEwigkt > Naughty0ne2Pointoh 12/25/2015 at 09:18

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If you couldn't get the police to deal with it, maybe a civil suit against the guy himself would have done it. Question is, would it have been worth the trouble. Probably not, for some scratches, though it would have been sweet.

Naughty0ne2Pointoh > SchwarzeEwigkt 12/25/2015 at 09:23

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Agreed. Hence why I never took it further. - The same thing happening today would be different however. If the internal complaint wasn’t taken care of I’d be sending the video to Jalopnik and posting on YouTube.

HammerheadFistpunch > drivesatruck_notaredneck 12/25/2015 at 09:28

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Same thing happened to my friend right before a big offroad trip we did. I wouldnt get a bumper with my money but new seats maybe

SteveLehto > KJabs got a Chevy SS!!! - no longer needs a Pontiac G8 12/25/2015 at 11:35

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Not off the top of my head, no.

Grindintosecond > SteveLehto 12/25/2015 at 13:23

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The book. This past summer, my father met one of the engineers who worked on that project. I don’t know what capacity, but he did mention what speed they got the competition cars up to on the big multiple mile test oval. At the time, just shockingly fast. Are those parts in the book? If so, than it’s definitely complete. I might be requesting a signed copy in the future.

SteveLehto > Grindintosecond 12/25/2015 at 14:24

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I interviewed dozens of the guys who worked on and designed them. At Chelsea they did some high speed testing but the fastest anyone ever got one of the winged cars to go back then was the Isaac runs at Bonneville. There have been some things written claiming that the car at Chelsea got over 240 but that is incorrect.

NJAnon > SteveLehto 12/25/2015 at 14:40

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Its still really unfortunate places of business are allowed to get away with circumventing potential crimes. I mean if you steal something, instantly you’re arrested. But if you own a business, red tape will save you.....its almost like it was written that way long ago on purpose.....

CounterTorqueSteer > SteveLehto 12/28/2015 at 20:07

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This is excellent. Thanks Steve.

ateamfan42 > SteveLehto 12/29/2015 at 10:53

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Great advice, and extremely helpful as usual, Steve.

I for one find the very existence of those false signs and “contract statements” insulting. Don’t feed me a bunch of fake legal B.S. that prays on ignorance of the law.

It is good to know there exists at least one law that counters the old adage of “What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away.”